he needs to answer those hard questions without being defensive and so, they both have challenges going in, but it should ab really great debate. >> clayton: it's interesting if you look back as a historian, 2008 and beyond. vice-president biden, then candidate biden crushed hillary clinton and barack obama in the debates. he was the one winning the debates. >> he's a very strong debater. i'm sure that that's the biden that will show up this week, but part of the problem that a president and a vice-president faces is that they can be insulated very easily. they speak to crowds that adore them. >> right. >> they aren't orphanage challenged with tough questions from reporters as we've seen lately and i think that's a big challenge for biden this time around. >> historically the vice-president debates, i think, vealyielded a lot more entertaining moment and some think they'll stand out more. >> lloyd benson and dan quayle, 2002008. >> jack kennedy was a friend of mine. senator, you're no jack kennedy. (cheer (cheers) >> that was a fierce moment. >> that was a strong zinger and perhaps the